Homegrown: Nancye Hayes celebrates 50 years in the biz

David Allen speaks with Australian Showbiz Legend Nancye Hayes about her 50 year career, her life on stage and her latest production, Annie.

Of the many incredible leading ladies the Australian entertainment industry has produced over the last century, there really is none to compare with Nancye Hayes. In her one woman show Nancye With an E she sings a song crafted for her by Max Lambert and Tony Sheldon called “The Answer” and in it she comically laments being so often described as Australia’s answer to other actresses.

However, while you can compare aspects of Nancye’s career to Gwen Verdon’s, still other aspects to Chita Rivera’s, still more to Bernadette Peters, or Julia McKenzie, or Dorothy Louden, or Angela Lansbury… (it’s a long list), having read Nancye’s extensive CV (to put it mildly), none of those actresses could compare their careers to Nancye Hayes’!

Without fear of contradiction I can safely say that, internationally, a handful of leading ladies could compare to Nancye Hayes in terms of the roles they have played, the plays they have directed and the musicals they have choreographed. She’s no Hollywood movie star. She’s never won a Tony or an Olivier – Nancye Hayes is completely home grown and as much a fixture of the Australian entertainment industry as any Australian actor can ever be. The simple truth is that without her, the theatre industry in Australia could not have developed into what it is today.

Through the skill of her performances, and with a lifetime’s dedication to her craft, she has broken boundaries and brought generations of Australians into full houses again and again in shows by the very finest talent the world has to offer. As an actress, as a dancer, as a singer, she remains one of our most active performers and rightly so. Her skill, fifty years into a glittering career, remains undiminished – and her dedication to the theatre has, if anything, only increased with time.

I am, of course, a huge fan.

Nancye’s presence in a show uniformly guarantees my attendance. To miss out on a performance by Nancye Hayes – as I unfortunately did recently with The Production Company’s (reputedly incredible) staged concert version of the hit musical Grey Gardens – is to miss out on something special.

Rather than spend valuable pixel ink rambling on about my own affection for Nancye as a performer and how much beloved she is within the Australian industry, I would rather let her do the talking. I recently was afforded the chance to interview her – for what I considered a dangerously brief twenty minutes during her busy rehearsal schedule for her present show: Annie, which, of course, John Frost will present at Sydney’s Lyric Theatre from January 5 in 2012.

However, what I discovered, is that twenty minutes with Nancye Hayes is worth two hours anywhere else. So, having said that, all I can do is present a transcription of our conversation together – with love, to a true icon of Australia, and one of the most beautiful people I have ever met.

To Nancye Hayes, With Love:
This interview took place in a music room adjoining the main rehearsal rooms for John Frost’s upcoming production of Annie at the ABC Centre on Harris Street in Sydney, recorded on an iPhone…

DAVE: Thank God for iPhones. Or rather thank God I know how to use them now.
NANCYE: Well you’re a bit ahead of me! (Laughs) I’m still a bit of a dinosaur in the technology department. People say I’ll send you a this and you send it back with all these initials and I say “no you won’t”! (Laughs) You’re talking to me you know!

DAVE: I understand. I’m at the Australian Institute of Music and trust me, there I’m considered an absolute infant in terms of technology.
NANCYE: So what are you doing up there?

DAVE: Contemporary performance.
NANCYE: Oh good! Good good good! I’ve been up there from time to time.

DAVE: I know! You directed Promises Promises – which is a tough show.
NANCYE: Along with Karen [Johnson Mortimer], who is directing Annie…

You see I’d known Karen for a long time and I was in [My] Fair Lady, and the show left Sydney, so I only could do all the scene work [for Promises Promises] and a couple of the numbers before I had to go, but I love doing it.

DAVE: You’ve directed a lot! I was sent your CV and my God! I knew it would be long but… Wow!
NANCYE: Well over the years it’s been sort of like something that came my way more from people saying “oh well you should direct something” and me saying “oh no! I don’t see myself as a director” but, particularly if you move into it from the director/choreographer perspective…so doing something like Dames at Sea, which I’d done years ago, and new Australian work, that’s how I got into the directing side of things. Through, I suppose, just performances shifting the plays.

Favourite Theatre In Australia

DAVE: Right. Well, we’ve only got twenty minutes so I thought I’d ask four questions and sort of work around those.
NANCYE: Right.

DAVE: But I’ll warm you up with two: of all the theatres you’ve performed in, in Australia, which would you consider a favourite?
NANCYE: Her Majesty’s in Melbourne. Because when I started in the business, I worked for a firm called JC Williamsons. That was there base…

DAVE: Yeah.
NANCYE: … and so that was a bit like… no matter where the show opened, you always went to Melbourne to rehearse. My first show being My Fair Lady, I actually went into it after the Sydney season — I wasn’t in the absolute original [Australian production], but I was in it for two years. That first time I got to Melbourne was my first time away from home… well, very early in my career, and going to capital cities and things. And I absolutely loved it! That area of Melbourne where there is the Maj and the Comedy and the Princess — it was like a little theatrical district like the West End or Broadway.

“It was terribly exciting when I first started out to be seeing all these famous actors and wandering around and sitting, you know, talking about what shows were coming and all that sort of thing…“

So you always saw all the other actors. And it was terribly exciting when I first started out to be seeing all these famous actors and wandering around and sitting, you know, talking about what shows were coming and all that sort of thing. And Betty Pounder, who was a great mentor of mine, and was the choreographer and, later, director and casting director for Williamsons, she had a lovely home there and would always have us over for an evening or something and end up (Laughs)… we’d all end up dancing around her lounge room to all the old shows! So, the Maj is really like my theatrical home.

Favourite Show

DAVE: Second, I want to ask, do you have a favourite show? Or shows? And I don’t just mean musicals.
NANCYE: Oh! I do have a lot of favourite shows. Well, personally, of course, Sweet Charity will always be a great anchor for me, because it was an enormous opportunity. It was more of a hit in Sydney than Melbourne…

DAVE: Really?
NANCYE: It was a bit ahead of its time in Australia, in all honesty. If you go back, if you’re realistic about it, it opened and did fantastic business in Sydney. Melbourne… warmed to it a little later I would say. It was in that new area of… and you know, a musical about a dance hall hostess with dubious (laughs) morals.

DAVE:And a number like “Big Spender”…
NANCYE: ‘Big Spender’ – that was a bit of a shock. But the people who did embrace it really loved it! Particularly, probably the younger theatregoers, because they went “wow! We’ve never seen anything like this. A black stage” and you know… this great dancing and a lit side that showed off the choreography so well. That would be a favourite.

Then, of course, Guys and Dolls. I loved Miss Adelaide for years and years…and then I thought “oh well, I won’t get it. It had never been done, really, not really been done on a national company scale. And when the national theatre of Great Britain did it, well, I was just in on the verge. And I really loved that!

” I do have a lot of favourite shows. Well, personally, of course, Sweet Charity will always be a great anchor for me, because it was an enormous opportunity“
Roxie Hart [in Chicago]! Of course. That was the next thing that Gwen Verdon had done after Sweet Charity. So, I was watching what Gwen would do (Laughs). And I discovered Chicago many years before it was actually done here. I saw it and met her in New York, which was a huge thrill! And we had a lovely – it was between shows – we had a lovely chat in her dressing room, which I’ll never forget. Because she was so generous, and so funny, and so warm. “I know” she said, “I know you played Charity [in the original Australian production of Sweet Charity]”. And I said “I don’t think they’ll do Chicago. There’s no chat about it.”

And also, years ago in Australia, people who worked in musicals weren’t given the opportunity to play straight roles. But I got a play called… well, I was in New York looking at … I actually went with a girlfriend and we went to see A Chorus Line, because we’d both come from the chorus and we couldn’t wait to see it. And we got in there and burst into tears the minute it started! (Laughs) Before anybody said anything! So that was really wonderful.

That year, we stayed at the old Algonquin Hotel, which is a great theatrical… digs, for want of a better word. And we felt we were absorbing all of this great theatrical scene. And the people that were the representatives for JC Williamsons said to me: “are you going to see any plays?” And I said: “oh yes, I am.” And they said: “we think you should see Same Time Next Year.”

And I said “oh yes! We’ve got that on the list.” And then Laurel said to me – my friend – “I wonder why they’re wanting you to see that? They might want you to do that!” “Never!” I said! (Laughs) “Never in a million years would they want me to do that!” Because of course, they never gave anybody in musicals straight roles.

Sure enough we went to see it and loved it. I mean, it was a lovely – beautifully crafted play! We came back to the Algonquin and got some room service, and the waiter said “What have you been to see?” and we said “Oh, Same Time Next Year!” and he said “Ellen Burstyn is in the room next door!”

DAVE: OH!
NANCYE: She was the star, and my friend said: “IT’S AN OMEN!” (Laughs) So I got home and indeed… was offered that role in that incredible show. So that was a beautiful play and I loved doing that. And then, more recently, I’ve done Six Dance Lessons with Todd [McKenney] which was another lovely play. And then the other one that you have your eye on all your life is Sweeney Todd – and never think you’ll do it. Nelly Lovett. But South Australian Opera and Gale Edwards offered me the part. It was only for twenty-two performances and it was partly opera and partly music theatre people in the cast. Wonderful! Just wonderful!

DAVE: How do you breathe in those numbers?
NANCYE: I know! It’s so detailed! That number with the rolling pin [“The Worst Pies in London”] where you’re whacking the bugs and rolling the dough (Laughs)…

DAVE: It’s just unbelievably co-ordinated!
NANCYE: … it’s a wonderful exercise in just keeping your wits about you! (Laughs)DAVE: I can imagine!NANCYE: If you miss a beat you’re like … “ohhh!” – left with it.

DAVE: “Where am I?!”
NANCYE: “What’s the words?!” But… Oh! And I’ve recently done Grey Gardens!

Grey Gardens

DAVE: I wish I could have seen that! I really do! Is there any chance it will go elsewhere?
NANCYE: Well, they’re hoping that they may be able to interest other people in taking it on, but it wouldn’t be for another twelve months as I understand. Because Pamela [Rabe] has a lot of commitments, as I do. But we both absolutely couldn’t believe our good fortune in being able to have a go at those incredible characters.

DAVE: I never thought it would get here.
NANCYE: Oh, me either.

DAVE: It’s such a piece of Americana, and what a score.
NANCYE: Beautiful score. And what a story. And the two halves are like two different shows. No that was great, I mean there’s been a lot things David, you know, I’ve been so fortunate to have… kind of, projected myself onto these roles that I think I’d like to play and then fortunately, get them. I mean, I’ve had the long runs like 42nd Street, which was good fun, and so lovely to be part of.

DAVE: And Nine.
NANCYE: Nine I loved! I saw that in New York and loved it and never thought that would be done! Then John Deidrich turned up and said “do you know a show called Nine?’ when I was doing Guys and Dolls. And I said “YES!” (Laughs) You know – my antenna going up! He said “I’m thinking of doing it.” I said “well, oh, will you put me down?” And I loved playing Lilianne [La Fleur].

DAVE: And your “Follies Bergeres” is just spectacular!
NANCYE: Well it was a lovely company and we just all loved being part of it…

DAVE: It is a great company in that production.
NANCYE: … You know that I think that the joy of the company, you know, I think as a director, if you get the right cast… Most of your job is done because their love, and their thrill of doing what they’re doing absolutely electrifies the process.

DAVE: Yes.
NANCYE: It does. You know, and I’ve worked with a lot of great people… and when I’ve gone over to WAAPA, which hasn’t been recently now, but I went about every second year for the early part of the 2000’s. I was there 2001, 2003, 2005 and then… but you know, what’s the great thrill for me is that the kids I worked with there are now all out there and doing all these wonderful things! … So it’s… you know, it’s a very fortunate life I lead.

Still at the forefront

DAVE: Well, that leads nicely into my next question. You’re still completely at the forefront. I mean, you must be on every casting agents list of “who do we call if we need…”
NANCYE: Well if you need an actress of a certain age! (Laughs)

DAVE: How do you stay there?  Oh no! If you need a leading lady!
NANCYE: Well, when I was… I was doing a show at the Reg [Reginald Theatre at the Seymour Centre] all this year. And we had a very long tour. And it was really tough.

DAVE: Of course, because Turns is – it’s gorgeous! – but wow!
NANCYE: Yes it was wow! It was big, a big small show!

DAVE: Yes!
NANCYE: John got in touch with me – John Frost – and he said “Oh Nance, we’re thinking of doing Annie again” and I said “Oh right” – because I was resident director with Martin Charnin on the last revival of Annie in 2000. And he said “we’re thinking of doing it again, come and see me” and so I went in to see him, because they weren’t sure when they were going to do it and the whole thing. And then they decided on this particular date and I said “look, I’m moving from Tamworth to Townsville, to Perth to Hobart!”. I said unfortunately I just couldn’t be part of it. “Never mind about that” John said, “would you like to play Miss Hannigan?” … I nearly fell off the seat! (Laughs) Most unexpected, the last thing I had seen happening. I said “well… yes, I would like to play Miss Hannigan!”(Laughs)

And John said – because I’d being doing all these shows, playing Mrs Higgins [in My Fair Lady] and Madame Aarmfeldt [in A Little Night Music] and all the women with the grey wigs. And John said “as well as you do them, I don’t want to see you in another grey wig!” (Laughs) Which I thought was very sweet! It was very lovely.

Annie

NANCYE: Oh it’s great fun, it’s going to be such great fun to do it. And of course I did it years ago playing Lily St Regis, and that was a great experience, because then I became dear friends with Jill [Perryman] and Kev [Kevan Johnston], and we were joined at the hip for all of that tour and had a lot of laughs, and it was a very, very happy time.

DAVE: Do you get a different perspective on these shows? You’ve walked into them years ago and played, you know, incredible, iconic characters; and then years later you’re walking in and playing different – and yet still incredible, iconic characters!
NANCYE: Well, I think the actual expertise of all the young people around you is growing and growing because of their training. And I think we can do more and more with them in ensemble work than we were able to do before. So that brings another layer to it, I think. Because they are – they are triple threats. They can do it all. And in something like Annie, they’ve got to cover everybody, they’ve got to learn their own plots – well that’s just true of all the new musicals, all those shows are amazing. When I worked with Martin [Sharman – as resident director of the 2000 production of Annie] it was remarkable. Why I wanted to do that was to work with someone who had originated something! I’d worked with a lot of great directors, but this man came with… well, the bible! Why things were how they were. Why he’d changed certain things. You know, this was an anniversary production and he decided to swap the set entirely! So it made him think differently…

DAVE: Wow!
NANCYE: … so everything was on the other side. There was new choreography, ‘cause there was new… there was a new song, that Anthony [Warlow] did do – that he’s not going to do this time, because, he’s thought it through. It’s a great song, but he just didn’t feel it really was needed. You know, the balance of a show is so important, and he did it beautifully, but I was talking to him the other day and he said “no, I’ve decided no,” he said “I think it’s a bit me-me-me for Daddy Warbucks” well, which is a nice thing for someone of his calibre to say…

DAVE: It is!
NANCYE: Yes, it is. But that production was a great experience – a big learning curve. And then I had to work with all the Annie’s and the little orphans in each state. Working with children and animals.

Why Showbiz?

DAVE: Oh! Now! One thing I must ask you, because I think it’s something anyone in showbiz wonders about occasionally: out of everything you could have done, why did you pick the entertainment industry?
NANCYE: … I think …

DAVE: Or did it pick you?
NANCYE: It did. It picked me I think. According to my family – and I don’t come from a theatrical family at all, they were people that love… my Mum was one of three girls, the middle one. They all sang and danced and went to little dancing schools when they grew up and everything, but when they were young women, it was the depression. Growing up in the depression – then the war! And you didn’t go into – unless you probably came from a theatrical family – you didn’t go into showbusiness, so to speak…

DAVE: You got married!
NANCYE: You did. You married, and that’s what they all did (laughs). But, from a little thing I always loved to dance. So I was sent off to dancing school, as most little girls were then. And I was fortunate to have a dancing teacher — Hazel Meldrun - who had come from JC Williamsons. She had been “the” ballet mistress for all the shows with Gladys Moncrieff like Rosemary and The Desert Song and all those very old 20’s, 30’s shows. But she left JC Williamson, started this little dancing school in Manly, which is where I lived, and she saw in me: song and dance! From a little thing. Although we did ballet and I did all my advanced work and all that, in the concerts, I would always have a song and dance routine. And through her connections with Williamson’s, Betty Pounder used to come if she needed children for any shows, she would always come over to see Hazel. And I think Hazel had pointed me out to Betty years before I ever started auditioning as someone to watch.  I had these guardian angels, so to speak, because the sort of shows that Williamson’s produced were always what I really wanted to do. My mother, of course, she said I had to do a secretarial course, and learn shorthand and typing. And then I went and had to work, and our plan was that I would work for two years, so I established the fact that I had worked as a secretary, and then I could audition. So, that was a bit of a hiatus in my life, but I still went to all the classes and everything. And my dancing teacher started a musical theatre company, and we’d be included in that as dancers. So I was starting to be part of musicals, old musicals, you know but not…

DAVE: Not to be sneezed at.
NANCYE: … but the change for me too was… the second show I did was How to Succeed [in Business Without Really Trying]. And that’s when, in America, the style of musicals had started to change.

DAVE: Yes.
NANCYE: And, as dancers, we’d never been given any lines or anything in Fair Lady. It was always – it always went to the singers. But in How to Succeed, we were allowed to audition for little one-liners, and little characters, and I got a couple. And the Americans, we had six Americans – course they always imported a lot of Americans… or English, depending on the show. But they said “she’s got comedy – Nancye’s a comedian.” So they gave me the understudy to Heddy LaRue [the seond female lead], and then when Betty went back after a year, I took over from that. So I had so many wonderful doors open for me. I can’t believe it. Someone was up there looking after me.

Where to now?

DAVE: And I suppose all I can ask is: “where now?” Is there something you badly want to play or direct?
NANCYE: I’m just so grateful that I’m still able to be part of this industry at this time of my life. I don’t project too far ahead. I just think if something’s meant to happen, it’ll hopefully come away. And if it isn’t, I hope I’ll always be involved with the younger ones coming up, because they’re a big shot in the arm to me. I see in them myself when I was young – and that keeps me very buoyant.

DAVE: Is there anything you want to say?
NANCYE: I think we might have covered it! But, I am thrilled to get out of the grey wig and get on the dancing shoes again (Laughs).

DAVE: And I’m dying to see you in Annie – I’ll tell you, and I’m absolutely not alone.
NANCYE: Oh well we’re thrilled, we’re all thrilled to be bringing it back, it’s a beautiful show, and it never ceases to touch me. Even sitting in the rehearsal room, watching Anthony sing “Something Was Missing” – just such a beautiful moment. Such a beautifully crafted show.

Nancye Hayes (OAM), will be playing the role of Miss Hannigan in Annie from January 5 at Sydney’s Lyric Theatre. Beyond that, while Nancye doesn’t like to project too far ahead, we can all only hope that she will choose to be on the stage for many years to come.

Fifty years into her career and Nancye Hayes is a powerhouse. Let’s hope in a year’s time there will be a national tour of Grey Gardens waiting for her – with a whole lot of laughter, love and applause. Or, as that song in Sweet Charity would have it, fun laughs, good times! Who else has earned it more?